cast or forged

[1971ford]

are my beams cast or forged?
'71 f250.
Thanks

[1971ford]

apparently they are forged.
Ford used Forged beams until 1980 when they closed their stamping plant.

[fordman]

i thought they were cast iron. as far as scrap value goes. maybe they are forged steel. thats too bad. cast iron brings more than forged steel. mayeb i can just tell them they are cast and they can figure it out.

[19FORD67]

if i got this right forged steel is "stamped" out from semi molten steel and cast is "poured" as a molten liquid . If it is stamped I think there is a "rib" that will run it's length, or maybe vice versa,
i have heard that this rib comes from the mold. I think a cast breaks in two and leaves this mark.
Heck I dunno.

[Alvin in AZ]

...forged steel is "stamped" out from {hot/soft} steel and cast is "poured" as a molten liquid.

Both have a line around them but the lines are different. :)

Cast always has porosity in it just like welding, and welding is a type of "casting process" BTW.
Grain growth while the liquid solidifies is another problem with metal castings and welding.

There are lots of cast iron compositions but there's also different processes they can be put
through that can radically change the properties, even tho they are the same composition. :)

Welding on cast iron can-be a real bad idea since the compostion may be weaker than a pop
corn fart when fresh cast, without its heat treatment and that can takes hours or even days.

I can't talk specifics because I've never taken any real interest in cast irons. :(

There's a jillion of them counting the various heat treatments and some have many names for
the same dangged product, let alone the other way around. :/ They've never interested me,
so I never bothered to sort them all out. ;)

Alvin in AZ

[fordman]

yea and ney. cast means it is cast into a mold. via a pouring process probably. forged means it was also put into a mold but it was a solid piece of steel put into a mold and then the top mold was either pressed or dropped onto the bottom half of the mold. to form the piece. surely everyone has heard ofwrenches and other stuff being drop forged.

[70_F100]

Fordman, slight correction to terminology.

Liquids are formed in a mold. For cast iron, it's a sand mold.

Solid materials are formed using a die.

A die for something like this is mounted in a stamping/forging press (the proper name is mechanical power press or hydraulic power press, depending upon the operating mechanism) that will produce MANY tons of force. There is a lower half and an upper half to the die. The upper half is attached to a ram that moves up and down which, in turn, opens and closes the die.

We used to make the battery terminals for Chrysler (back around '03-'05), and that relatively thin metal was stamped in a 200-ton mechanical press. We still stamp automotive wiring connectors in 30-ton and 60-ton presses, but they are very tiny pieces.

If you drove a car or truck today, regardless of make, it probably has some of our connectors on it, somewhere!!!

I can't imagine what tonnage a press would be for forging an I-beam for one of these trucks!!!

[fordman]

thats cool that was more than i new.

[R.Smith]

Finally, something I know something about...

The I beams are forged. A steel billet is heated to over 2000 degrees in a gas furnace then placed between 2 dies into which the final shape has been machined. Same goes for your rods, axles and most cranks ect (these will then be machined and then heat treated). There are usually several sets of dies that are used in progression from the original billet to the final shape. Trying to do it in one heat is nearly impossible because the excess steel needs to be worked out of the dies to avoid "cold shuts" wherein the excess steel, unable to exit the die, folds in on itself. This used to be done with mammoth steam hammers run by "hammer drivers" who took great pride in their ability to do things like crack a walnut with a 30,000 pound steam hammer. Today it's mostly computer driven hydralic forging presses.

The beams are then normalized, hardened and finally tempered depending on the type of steel and whatever the application requires. Some steels don't require treatment. Some do.

Forged steel is far superior to cast iron or cast steel because it is tough and can withstand shock force from multiple directions. It flexes. Cast iron breaks like candy and cast steel, while better, is still brittle when compared to forged steel. Forged steel, when bent, can be heated and straightened.

This toughness yet flexible nature is why all your wrenchs have "drop forged" on the handles. Cast wrenches wold mean a lot more busted knuckles.

BTW..stamping is a sheet metal process. Forging refers to the heating and forming process.

Next week we'll discuss rolling mills

[70_F100]

BTW..stamping is a sheet metal process. Forging refers to the heating and forming process.

100% correct. Sort of like when horseshoes are fitted to a horse's hoof.

In our facilities, we do metal stamping and plastic injection molding. Some of our connectors are as thin as .040 with a width of 0.64mm.

Pull a connector from a Chrysler ECM and you'll see as many as 190 connectors in a space of about 6"x1.5".

I went to one of our facilities that's in another division, and watched them make network cable. Really neat to watch a big, thick piece of copper turn into a wire that's only a few thousandths thick, then have insulation applied, and finally put into a bundle and have another layer of insulation applied around the whole schtick. Once this is all done, it's put onto huge spools or wound and placed in boxes. The REALLY neat thing about it was that all of this was done by machines, and the only time there was a need for human intervention was when the materials had to be moved from one machine to another.

[Alvin in AZ]

Finally, something I know something about...

Yeah, you do. :)
That was cool. :)

Forged steel is far superior to cast iron or cast steel because it is tough and
can withstand shock force from multiple directions. It flexes. Cast iron breaks
like candy and cast steel, while better, is still brittle when compared to forged
steel. Forged steel, when bent, can be heated and straightened.

Yeah but. ;)

There's a gray-area where the two categories merge in strength and other properties.
So there-are some cast iron/steel parts that can beat some forged steel parts.
Still the exception rather than the rule, but they do exist and wanted to mention it. :)

Like what your bench-vise and the twin-eye-beams on my '90 F250 are made of. :)
Those aren't the toughest cast irons but is looking in sorta the right direction tho. ;)

They are developing new cast irons everyday, we are far from what "cast iron" parts
are capable of and it's not all in the composition, the heat treatments are a very big
part of cast iron's strength or lack of.

Minimizing the grain growth or putting it to work to your advantage is a part of what
the new stuff is about and minimizing porosity too, as always.

The best titanium jet engine fan blades are cast and form one to four grains going in
the best direction possible, is one real world example that I can mention off hand.

Kinda weird to think about huh? :)
What are they going to be able to do with heat treatable cast iron products? :)

Alvin in AZ

[R.Smith]

I don't know about A-10's but I've worked on A-7's and F-16's and one thing I remember is the daily FOD walk across the flightline looking for anything that might get sucked into the intake, chip a turbine blade and cause the engine to self destruct due to the resulting weight inbalance. That's why I do not fly in commercial jets

We were talking about whether the I beams on our bumps were cast or forged.

As for tinkering...here's a few pics of my playroom.

[R.Smith]

oopps...try again...

http://members.cox.net/lineshaft/Lineshaft_Photos.htm

[Alvin in AZ]

http://members.cox.net/lineshaft/Lineshaft_Photos.htm

http://members.cox.net/lineshaft/DCP_0045c.jpg
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/wet.htm
If I had your money I could burn mine. :)

Alvin in AZ

[R.Smith]

I don't have any money. All those machines were rescued from the scrap man, torn apart, repaired where needed and reassembled. Except for the forging hammer. I traded a 1938 Case tractor for that...but I had to resore the tractor first

What I have is too much spare time. And I'm not married. heh.

I think I paid $50 for the grindstone from a guy in Hamburg Penn. and was even able to con a buddy into picking it up for me on his way from NY to Va.

Stuff like this is still easy to find on the east coast. Not so much out where you are.