New MSD drop in ready to run distributor Part 2

[72bumbee]

Hi again,
Got the distributor shaft prepared this morning with the gasket put on in the same orientation as the old unilite and the whole shaft slathered with grease as instructed. It went in reasonably smooth down to the last quarter inch and stopped. I applied more downward pressure and it wasn't moving any further.
At this point I'm running the written and verbal instructions through my brain and just stopped everything to hop on here to see what the forum suggests.
Attached, please find the photos i snapped, and advise as to what the problem may be. My first reaction is to get out the rubber mallet, and my wife suggested tightening down the hold down clamp to snug it in....

[DuckRyder]

Probably hung up on the oil pump drive.

I would advise against the hammer and tightening the clamp...

Is everything lined up in your picture, because I would rather see the advance can pointed straight forward... The oil pump drive has six flats on it IIRC and reorienting the distributor may help.

[72bumbee]

that was what was going through my head... I was under the impression that wouldn't be an issue if the motor had not been cranked or the rig moved?
Please don't tell me the oil pump needs to be removed..???

[DuckRyder]

I think I added a bit while you were replying.

No you won’t have to pull the oil pump (as long as you don’t drop the driveshaft or damage them). If you’re sure everything is properly oriented you can turn the pump drive shaft with a 1/4 drive socket (IIRC is 5/16) and a sufficient number of extensions. TAPE THEM TOGETHER Have a look at the corresponding hex drive in the end of the distributor shaft, a little oil on the hex drive doesn’t hurt...

[72bumbee]

I got the rest of the first reply after re reading.
I will re orient the advance can and try wiggling it in. If I cannot get the thing to drop in, Ill inquire as to what is meant by IIRC, that's a new one to me. The old guy im watching on you-tube is just reorienting the stuffing out of his distributor to get it to pass the oil gear thingy..... LOL!
Drop in ready to run my lilly white bender......

[DuckRyder]

IIRC is short for “If I Recall Correctly”

I almost hate to suggest this because if it doesn’t work it’ll be a mess as it will be out of time... but if you are sure every thing else is lined up, you can turn the motor while you wife puts slight downward pressure on it and it should drop in...

OH and if you do try to turn it with a socket I mean ALL OF IT when I say tape it together including the socket... otherwise the socket tends to stick on the shaft and come off the extension and it is a royal pain in the you know what. We can just gloss over how I came by this knowledge...

[72bumbee]

are you talking about putting a socket down inside the dizzy hole???!!!
I dropped a piece of old intake manifold gasket down there last time i had it apart and had to use my shop vac to suck it out.
I cant get any help around here, so I may just keep going up and down in the vicinity and see what happens for now. I suppose I'm not above taking it down the street to my mechanic, after the holidays.
If I get it to drop, ill proceed in wiring it up and just seeing if it will turn over.
if not, ill start with square one and pull it out again and make sure I have TDC and the cylinders all with the proper wires. Maybe you saw previously that this cap has not marked the #1 plug... modern technology....giving me a headache.

[72bumbee]

I hate to sound like I'm totally brainless, but I'm in need of a visual aid as i have been looking down that hole with my flashlight and rotating the easy peezey lemon squeezy distributor around and around looking for the sweet spot or some other indication of what this is hanging up on and cant see any reason why it isn't dropping that final 1/4th inch???
maybe paint a picture for me as if i have fallen on my head several times in the past week.....

[DuckRyder]

There is a drive shaft that sticks out of the top of the oil pump, the stock one is hex from end to the other, some of the aftermarket ones are round with a hex on each end.

Stock shafts are notorious for twisting in half. Both stock and most of the aftermarket are supposed to have a push nut or circlip on them to prevent them from coming out the top, in practice it usually does not hold even if it is there.

This oil pump drive shaft fits into the lower end of the distributor shaft.

If you look down the distributor hole you should see the cam gear and below next to that a part of the block with a hole in it that the distributor shaft goes into. In the center of that hole, should be the oil pump drive shaft.



This thread on another forum has a not very good picture in post 3. (the discussion doesn’t relate your issue, just the picture)

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/all-for ... ck-ft.html

[sargentrs]

Yeah, that can be really frustrating. If it don't fit, don't force it! I don't think I've ever had a distributor just "drop in" without have to work it. Virtually impossible to see the drive shaft from the distributor hole. Here's a pic of probably all you'll be able to see. I usually wind up having to "hunt" for it. I usually ease the distributor down into the hole until I feel it bump the shaft. Then put the rotor on top and use it to spin the distributor shaft gently while I slowly lift the distributor up a hair. As I'm twisting on the rotor I ease the distributor down into the hole until I feel it bump the top of the shaft and turn the rotor until it feels like the hex's are lined up. Then I put a socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt. Apply gentle pressure on the distributor and tweak the crankshaft until the distributor drops in. If it doesn't happen by turning the crank just a smidgen, back up and try it again...and again...and again. You've only got about 5*-10* of crankshaft rotation without screwing up your TDC location to the point of where it's not going to want to start. I've backed up my crank position 5* and rotated the crank a full 10* before one dropped in. That drive shaft is long enough that it'll be sitting firmly in the oil pump but still be able to lean to the point of the edge of your distributor shaft is sitting in the center of the oil pump shaft instead of lining up the hexes. Don't get overly hung up on the #1 plug wire location. As long as you know the #1 piston is sitting on TDC on the compression stroke and can see where the distributor rotor is pointing at which terminal on the cap, you can get it to crank and time. That #1 stamped on the distributor cap has caused many mechanics to spend hours getting the rotor to point there when it was totally unncessary.

[72bumbee]

so now the light comes on!
I can visualize my predicament now... I know now i need to pull that number one plug and get to TDC before moving the crank around to drop in the dizzy.
Not going to re install the batterey until i have it all wired up and ready to run. so no starter bumping it with the wife either.
You guys certainly know how to paint a vivid picture!!!
Thanks again and I will go play with this some more and repost my results!

[72bumbee]

I don’t have a breaker bar either, for rotating the crank... can I use a torque wrench or will the handle be too short?
What size socket do I use?

[DuckRyder]

Mine no longer has the stock bolt and I cannot find the old one in my spare parts so I can’t say exactly, I recall it being large though...

Truthfully a regular 1/2 ratchet should turn it with a little effort, most torque wrenches caution against “loosening” with them for fear of damage so I might be cautious about that.

[72bumbee]

Okay, I’ll just see how the regular ratchet works.

[sargentrs]

I think it's a 7/8 or 15/16". It's easier if you leave the #1 plug out and loosen/remove the belts.