Header Problems and Question

dustman_stx · Post by **dustman_stx** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:14 am

I am currently running a set of Flowtech ceramic coated headers on my 390. The problem is that the tubes protrude through the flange, which is supposed to contact the gasket and seal. I'm not having any luck getting the gaskety to contact and seal on such a thin area. I've pulled one of the headers, gotten gaskets that match as closely as possible (FPP1442), etc. Also, these headers have been installed 3 or 4 times now. The ears are bending, not allowing a good seal on the ends. This last attempt was with a good gasket that matched the exhaust hole perfectly, and they still leak- badly. I am considering either the OBX SS-304, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-Exha ... ccessoriesor the Hedman Elite, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-89810/. I like the looks of the OBX because the entire flange would contact, and should make for a really good seal. But, at the same time, I like the ceramic coating for reduced heat. I can't see the Hedman's to tell how the flange is made, though. Getting the OBX stainless ones and having them coated is not an option- too pricey. Anyone used any of these and have any advice? Thanks.

Edit: The heads are straight and smooth. Just machined recently.

Post by **DuckRyder** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:09 pm

What heads are you running?

Most (all?) trucks have "low exit" heads and many of the headers are designed with this in mind and wont seal to earlier car heads.

What do the gaskets look like?

robroy · Post by **robroy** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:18 pm

Hi Dustman_stx!

I'm using Hedman 89810's on my engine, and they're the "weld bead" type, so they only have a thin area around each port that actually contacts the gasket/head. Then the flange is offset away from the head a small amount--probably around 1/16".

Since my head surfaces were a little rough, I went with the RemFlex RF3050, which according to RemFlex, were made to precisely for the Hedman 89810 headers (the "weld bead" header type).

You may also be interested to know that the RemFlex gaskets are designed to crush up to 1/16", so depending on how bent your existing header flanges are, they might work as-is.

Here's the thread where I received great advice on my Hedman 89810's and gaskets.

http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... =3&t=43852

Note that I haven't actually fired up my engine since installing the RemFlex gaskets, to say nothing of driving it 100,000 miles to see if they're any good or not.

Robroy

Post by **DuckRyder** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:21 pm

Take a look at this:

http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... 2&p=366944

dustman_stx · Post by **dustman_stx** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:06 pm

DuckRyder wrote:What heads are you running?

Most (all?) trucks have "low exit" heads and many of the headers are designed with this in mind and wont seal to earlier car heads.

What do the gaskets look like?

C8AE-H heads. I appreciate the input, but I'm still leary about using the ones I have. The FelPro gaskets I just tried were a pretty good MLS and they didn't come close to sealing. I really like the looks of the OBX headers, but I'm just a little concerned about the stainless heating up the engine compartment. I think they would seal really well with a solid copper gasket. Also, about the Remflex gasket, I am pretty sure my exhaust ports are around 2" tall, not 1-13/16, but I could be wrong about that.

Post by **DuckRyder** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:26 pm

dustman_stx wrote:The FelPro gaskets I just tried were a pretty good MLS and they didn't come close to sealing.

If you will examine those gaskets closely, I think that you will see that the reason that they don't come close to sealing is that the port is much too large and the top of the port opening roughly coincides with the top of the header weld bead.

I've been through this with hooker headers on C8AE-H heads (flowtech is/was owned by Holley/Hooker so it is reasonable to expect they are similar) none of the "high performance" gaskets designed to fit multiple FE heads will work with headers that closely approximate the actual port exit on a truck head.

The likelihood is that you need "truck" header gaskets.

dustman_stx · Post by **dustman_stx** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:34 pm

DuckRyder wrote:
dustman_stx wrote:The FelPro gaskets I just tried were a pretty good MLS and they didn't come close to sealing.
If you will examine those gaskets closely, I think that you will see that the reason that they don't come close to sealing is that the port is much too large and the top of the port opening roughly coincides with the top of the header weld bead.

I've been through this with hooker headers on C8AE-H heads (flowtech is/was owned by Holley/Hooker so it is reasonable to expect they are similar) none of the "high performance" gaskets designed to fit multiple FE heads will work with headers that closely approximate the actual port exit on a truck head.

The likelihood is that you need "truck" header gaskets.

Checked that. Ports were measured, and the 1442 were almost an exact match to the header. I think that when I tried to use the copper gaskets, the ears bent far enough to not allow a seal when using a standard gasket. Thought about trying to bend the ears back, but I'm afraid that they will just give more easily the next time they are torqued down, resulting in more leaks. I might just weld some supports in strategically positioned places and use them on my unrestored 71.

Post by **DuckRyder** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:06 pm

dustman_stx wrote:
DuckRyder wrote:
dustman_stx wrote:The FelPro gaskets I just tried were a pretty good MLS and they didn't come close to sealing.
If you will examine those gaskets closely, I think that you will see that the reason that they don't come close to sealing is that the port is much too large and the top of the port opening roughly coincides with the top of the header weld bead.

I've been through this with hooker headers on C8AE-H heads (flowtech is/was owned by Holley/Hooker so it is reasonable to expect they are similar) none of the "high performance" gaskets designed to fit multiple FE heads will work with headers that closely approximate the actual port exit on a truck head.

The likelihood is that you need "truck" header gaskets.
Checked that. Ports were measured, and the 1442 were almost an exact match to the header. I think that when I tried to use the copper gaskets, the ears bent far enough to not allow a seal when using a standard gasket. Thought about trying to bend the ears back, but I'm afraid that they will just give more easily the next time they are torqued down, resulting in more leaks. I might just weld some supports in strategically positioned places and use them on my unrestored 71.

Well if you do decide to get the stainless ones post up some pictures, I don't think we have actually seen a set yet, I do think Robroy posted his hedmans. There is also FPA which has a reputation for making very nice heders for Fords.

convincor · Post by **convincor** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:28 am

what i've done with headers like your in the past is clean-up and weld around the outside of the tube to the flange. this would give it a lot more resistance to bending. But being yours are coated, you may not want to do that.. straiten them out and throw them on ebay..
The Sandersons, go to Ford, big block, block hugger, there the # FF427
http://www.sandersonheaders.com/product ... ucts_id=88
I'm thinking the Sandersons and POR15 http://www.por15.com/POR-20-ALUMINUM/productinfo/P2G/
help keep the cost down and still get the headers i want.. down the road if i'm not happy with the finish i could alway's pull them out and have them coated...

just thinking, i have a pint of the blackvelvet out in the shop... http://www.por15.com/BLACK-VELVET/productinfo/BVG/

Post by **DuckRyder** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:15 am

There is some good information here too.

http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... =3&t=35433

convincor · Post by **convincor** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:13 am

bad publicity for Sanderson..

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/27578 ... nyone.html

dustman_stx · Post by **dustman_stx** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:33 am

Those Stan's headers look good, but I cant spend 500-600 on a set of headers at this point. Also, noticed those a tri-y's. Can someone refresh me on the benefits of this design? I ended up buying the Hedman's yesterday. Supposed to be here on Friday. They offer a lifetime warranty. I was leary of the OBX considering the don't even show them on thier website.

convincor · Post by **convincor** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:09 am

I'm kind of leaning toward the Hooker 6903's.. reasonable price.. ceramic coating is an option but may just do that later locally after break-in.. They say there "tuned" also which most others aren't.

dustman_stx · Post by **dustman_stx** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:22 am

convincor wrote:I'm kind of leaning toward the Hooker 6903's.. reasonable price.. ceramic coating is an option but may just do that later locally after break-in.. They say there "tuned" also which most others aren't.

I'm running 3" exhuast, which put these off my list. Probably a good header, though, if running 2.5" exhaust. $420 for ceramic coated on Summit. A little pricier than the Hedmans, but maybe worth it????

convincor · Post by **convincor** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:39 am

the 2-1/2" is enough for my application... And they state that header being good in a street application.. I wouldn't get the ceramic coat thru Hooker.. My Cobra's headers came from them coated.. I'd rather have them done local and pay a little more...

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