What cam, intake, and other stuff.

[71fordkid]

Well, im gonna start getting parts together for my motor build. I wanna build a "Refreshed" 302. Im thinking a 4 bbl edelbrock Or just a summit racing intake. I wanna get a pretty lopey cam, but i dont know what one to get. I'm not very keen on all that stuff.

I want to use this truck for a street/strip truck. I want it to be kinda fast (dont worry, im upgrading to power/disk brakes too, and swaybars) so i dont just make alot of noise and go nowhere like i do now.

I know the bigger the lift, the more the valve opens, the faster fuel and exhaust goes in and out. I know the more duration the lobes have, the longer the valves are open. thats about it.

I'm going to get a set of heads, rebuild them and port them myself. i plan on running just stock 302 heads, pistons and the like. basically a stock bottom end.

I guess my question is, what should i use? im not concerend about fuel milage or idle quality, its not gonna be driven all the time.

[dbusedautoparts]

I would recomend using a matched edelbrock set up , from the sounds of what you have planned I would recomend the performer RPM intake,performer rpm cam and lifter set,and a 500 cfm edelbrock carb this would give you a very nice lope to the idle , Edelbrock also sells the matched valve springs and a nice dual roller timing chain, this is the best set up you can buy for the money its dyno proven, made to work together, and much easier than mis-matching parts,I put this same edelbrock set up on my buddy's 69 f-100 short box , the truck has 3.73 rear gears and a top loader 4spd, it is very fast and will catch rubber in 3 out of the 4 gears with just a quick snap of the throttle each time he shifts. A nice set of of long tube headers and flow master 40 or old school glass packs will finish off the mix nicely.

[71fordkid]

alright, now to price it on summit.

i have a couple more questions.

it has a t18 now, and its pretty low geared. is there anything i can do to get a little more top end?

and why not a gear drive, instead of a timing chain? and what is a roller timing chain?

[70_F100]

A top loader won't give you any more top end.

The 4th gear ratio in both the T-18 and the toploader is 1:1.

You've got closer ratios between gears with the top loader, so it will be quicker getting to top speed, but the top speed will be the same.

To get more top end, put taller gears in the rear.

[71fordkid]

Alrighty then, Off to a rip roarin start. I priced everything on summit, then called a local parts store, they can beat summits prices on the same parts. Looks like im sittin right over a grand to build this thing, not including nuts and bolts. so after that it'll probably be closer to 1200. The thing i am looking at from summit is a "Federal Mogul Premium Engine Rebuild Kit." I have some questions about it.

heres what all it includes:
Pistons Included Yes
Piston Material Hypereutectic aluminum
Piston Style Flat
Piston Rings Included Yes
Piston and Ring Oversize (in) 0.030 in.
Piston and Ring Oversize (mm) 0.75mm
Rod Bearings Included Yes
Rod Bearing Undersize (in) 0.010 in.
Rod Bearing Undersize (mm) 0.25mm
Main Bearings Included Yes
Main Bearing Undersize (in) 0.010 in.
Main Bearing Undersize (mm) 0.25mm
Cam Bearings Included Yes
Gaskets Included Yes
Oil Pump Included Yes
Oil Pump Volume Standard-volume
Oil Pump Pressure Standard pressure
Oil Pump Driveshaft Included No
Freeze Plugs Included Yes
Camshaft Included No
Lifters Included No
Timing Chain and Gears Included No
Assembly Lubricant Included Yes
Plastigage Included Yes
Quantity Sold as a kit.
Notes Approximate compression 9.08:1 with a 58.2cc head.




Now for my questions. What does the bearing undersize and piston and ring oversize thing mean? Am i gonna have to get my journals machined for this kit to work? I can probably get it done at school so no biggie if i have to do some machine work.

[dbusedautoparts]

pistons and rings over size .030 means you will have to bore your block .030 over, the .010 rod and main under size means you will have to turn your crank .010 -.010 under, If your going to go to that extent you might want to have your block line honed and your rotating assembly balanced. If your school can do the machining than that will save you a you some coin on the rebuild, But if any thing is done wrong it will cost you money on the other end in the form of a spun bearing or blow by and loss of compression from an overbored hole ect. I think your best bet would be to bring your motor to a good machine shop with experaince, the schools shop is most likely ok for stock rebuilds but if you plan on turning 7k your going to want to make sure the work has been done right.

[TNIceWolf]

Actually you are much better off disassembling the engine first and taking measurements before you order your parts. Depending on the rebuild over or undersized parts arent always needed or wanted. If you commit yourself to the standard oversize parts in the kit it is possible you may be spending more time and money on un needed machine work than is actually required. I agree with going with an experienced machinist. That usually saves you the pain of replacing a hard to obtain core that can be easily ruined by inexperience or over confidence by someone in a school type environment when they are not held financially liable for any incorrect work. While saving money is always a bonus........it isnt always your best option......and budgets more often than not get stretched way past their limits. Remember......until that engine is apart and checked thoroughly out you have no real idea whether it is in a stock configuration or not.

[TNIceWolf]

oops...........accidental double post........darned old puter

[HillbillyDelux]

Alrighty then, Off to a rip roarin start. I priced everything on summit, then called a local parts store, they can beat summits prices on the same parts. Looks like im sittin right over a grand to build this thing, not including nuts and bolts. so after that it'll probably be closer to 1200. The thing i am looking at from summit is a "Federal Mogul Premium Engine Rebuild Kit." I have some questions about it.

heres what all it includes:
Pistons Included Yes
Piston Material Hypereutectic aluminum
Piston Style Flat
Piston Rings Included Yes
Piston and Ring Oversize (in) 0.030 in.
Piston and Ring Oversize (mm) 0.75mm
Rod Bearings Included Yes
Rod Bearing Undersize (in) 0.010 in.
Rod Bearing Undersize (mm) 0.25mm
Main Bearings Included Yes
Main Bearing Undersize (in) 0.010 in.
Main Bearing Undersize (mm) 0.25mm
Cam Bearings Included Yes
Gaskets Included Yes
Oil Pump Included Yes
Oil Pump Volume Standard-volume
Oil Pump Pressure Standard pressure
Oil Pump Driveshaft Included No GET A NEW ONE
Freeze Plugs Included Yes
Camshaft Included No A thumpr cam would prolly give u the idle your after but with good streetability call summit or comp cams theyll talk to about it u just tell em wat u got and your plans for it theyll make some recomendations
Lifters Included No
Timing Chain and Gears Included No A whiney gear drive would be pretty cool but not if your gonna drive it everyday
Assembly Lubricant Included Yes
Plastigage Included Yes
Quantity Sold as a kit.
Notes Approximate compression 9.08:1 with a 58.2cc head. Thats about the smallest chamber for a sbf chances are ur heads have a larger chamber than that which will give u even lower compression, if i was buildin a hotrod motor id prolly want about 10:1 compression. jus my

[fitzwell]

buy a roller 5.0 H.O. motor to start with. If you're going to rebuild one, might as well start with something decent. As stated, tear the motor down & get a GOOD machinist to go over it to determine what "size" the replacement parts need to be. Stock E7's with some mild port work will work just fine on the street, or occasional strip duty. Weiand intake & a 600 Holley on top. Stock 5.0 h.o roller cam. Get the crane(if they're still available)"Cobra" 1.7 roller rocker kit. Stock oil pump, Motorsport oil pump driveshaft. Pay attention to he details as you build. You end up with a nice package that will get out of it's own way, and actually be drivable.


as always

[DuckRyder]

buy a roller 5.0 H.O. motor to start with. If you're going to rebuild one, might as well start with something decent.

Yep, if you are going to go small block, that is the way to go...

[HillbillyDelux]

wat kind of power numbers you looking for from this motor?

[71fordkid]

What would a roller motor come out of? What years and vehicles?

And I'm just wanting more get up and go,Im not really looking for any power/torque numbers.

I also want that lopey, rapata rapata rapata sound that the old muscle cars had/have. I know idle quality and smoothness is going to completely suck, but its not going to be an every day driver.

And what would be better to build, 351W or a 302? I know the 351 is a bigger and heavyer motor, but if i can get more power out of it than a 302, ill probably just go with that. Also, mid 80's broncos and 70's trucks are plentiful in the junkyards around here. Mustangs and other cars, not so much.

[dbusedautoparts]

the old saying goes There is no replacement for displacement and it true you would get more hp & tq out of the 351 windsor it also has heavier main jornels, The roller motor started in 86 but if you want the muscle car sound your not going to get that out of the roller style cam there ramp profile and over lap are very diffrent from a flat tappet cam the muscle sound you looking for. I have also heard rumor's that the roller motors had trouble in webbing of the blocks (not sure if its true). at any rate E7 Heads will perform well with mild work (My little Brother that drag race's uses these head's in the stock class and they are plentiful), But if you really want to make a monster get a set of assuie Heads Block the water inlets and drill new hole's for a BSA intake and build whats know as a clevor its the big breathing clevland style heads on a 351 windsor block same Idea as a 302 Boss tons of torque and Hp with a high rpm engine, your can do this to a 302 as well and run some good power numbers but this will cost you some seroius coin on either block, I believe the intake runs around $400 dollers alone, I still think the best bang for your buck is tear down your 302 check and clean ,and replace whats needed do some mild porting and polishing to your Heads and use the edelbrock performer rpm cam and intake kit, with a set of long tube header's and free flowing mufflers, this cam sounds fairly hot and makes good usable street power . what It all comes down To is you can make it go as fast as you want if you have the" cubic dollar's" to put in the motor .

[71fordkid]

What are E7 heads? just stock 70's 302 heads?

And can i put 351c heads on a 351w block?

What are the pros and cons of the 302 and 351W?