What could go wrong that caused this?

[fordman]

but you didnt call part of the reply bogus you called it bogus. period. my guess was that he was using a old NYLON gear on there and the new chain being tight itself. stripped the nylon off of that gear. not that a old gear and new chain were tight against each other. that was misread by you. i did use the wrong word i am sorry abotu that. i couldnt think of what that stuff was called so i just called it fibered. i have never seen a fibered gear on one of these trucks only on a gm. so that is my mistake and i will eat that. the torque i was referring towas again in that he could have stomped on it and tore the teeth off of a new gear. kind of hard to do but you never now. now as far as getting back to his orginal question. both of us misread it. he stated clearly that it was the distrubtor gear that got stripped off. so let us continue to answer his orginal question why did it eat that gear? thank you for your time. we both need to read slower.

[Ford240]

so our saying the timing gear teeth is what was ate up and not the timing gear teeth? oh man i misread that. so what would cause that? well a oil pump coul dlock up. and stop the dist from turning. since the cam wanted to keep goign it ate the brass teeth off of the gear. the pump shaft could also twist in a similar situtation but i guess its ok since you didnt mention it. thos egears come off by driving out a roll pin through the dist shaft and gear. then you pull the gear off put the new gear on and put in a new roll pin. see if you can turn the oil pump before you put the dist back in. new stuff can fail too.

The Oil pump on my 240 6 locked up, and it sheared the disty gear roll pin before it did any other damage. I think it would do that even if it were a brass gear, but this is purely speculation.

What else have you done with this engine besides changing the chain? Did it run fine before you changed the chain? What engine do you have in your truck? What year of truck and what engine did you get the electronic disty from?

[JMcTurnan]

Ok, so there was no spacer period behind my first gear anyway. Theres an oil slinger on the crank, I used a double roller. I checked the thrust plate and all that, the cam shaft was tight. So thats good there. I replaced chain and gears all together. Ive put in a whole new crank kit. But thats not the problem. An oil pan also, but the rod was still there and I checked its rotation and it seemed fine. Ford engines from my year did not have a c ring, so no worry about that. But the old chain was on wrong anyway, and we had that distributor in and running with the chain on wrong. Is it possible that that weakened the distributor, and when we put a new chain on correctly it just was tight and it caused the dizzy gear to break?

[OldRedFord]

Would it be possible to post pics of the gear?

What about the gear on the camshaft, what kind of shape is it in?

[BigEd]

but you didnt call part of the reply bogus you called it bogus. period. my guess was that he was using a old NYLON gear on there and the new chain being tight itself. stripped the nylon off of that gear. not that a old gear and new chain were tight against each other. that was misread by you. i did use the wrong word i am sorry abotu that. i couldnt think of what that stuff was called so i just called it fibered. i have never seen a fibered gear on one of these trucks only on a gm. so that is my mistake and i will eat that. the torque i was referring towas again in that he could have stomped on it and tore the teeth off of a new gear. kind of hard to do but you never now. now as far as getting back to his orginal question. both of us misread it. he stated clearly that it was the distrubtor gear that got stripped off. so let us continue to answer his orginal question why did it eat that gear? thank you for your time. we both need to read slower.

You are wrong. I read his post and your response correctly and understood what the problem was. I read what you wrote and it is still all wrong. You are young and inexperienced. I have been reading your replies for a very long time before I joined and you are rash to respond. In this case you do not know or understand the subject but you think you do so you are offended by being corrected. I have been a Ford service tech for 30 years, I do know a bit about the subject. Ed

[BigEd]

Ok, so there was no spacer period behind my first gear anyway. Theres an oil slinger on the crank, I used a double roller. I checked the thrust plate and all that, the cam shaft was tight. So thats good there. I replaced chain and gears all together. Ive put in a whole new crank kit. But thats not the problem. An oil pan also, but the rod was still there and I checked its rotation and it seemed fine. Ford engines from my year did not have a c ring, so no worry about that. But the old chain was on wrong anyway, and we had that distributor in and running with the chain on wrong. Is it possible that that weakened the distributor, and when we put a new chain on correctly it just was tight and it caused the dizzy gear to break?

Did you check for a spacer? Your engine should have had one if it was a marine 351. I don't know who told you that your year did not have one because if it really is a marine/industrial engine it did come with one. That is how Ford builds them. If you have not checked it you need to. What do you mean the chain was on wrong? There really is no wrong way for a chain to be on, it is two gears and a chain. It can be out of time but that can be intentional (that would mean the dots did not line up how you think they should). No matter how you set the cam timing it will not affect the distributor gear. Ed

[OldRedFord]

Wow, this thread.

[fordman]

but you didnt call part of the reply bogus you called it bogus. period. my guess was that he was using a old NYLON gear on there and the new chain being tight itself. stripped the nylon off of that gear. not that a old gear and new chain were tight against each other. that was misread by you. i did use the wrong word i am sorry abotu that. i couldnt think of what that stuff was called so i just called it fibered. i have never seen a fibered gear on one of these trucks only on a gm. so that is my mistake and i will eat that. the torque i was referring towas again in that he could have stomped on it and tore the teeth off of a new gear. kind of hard to do but you never now. now as far as getting back to his orginal question. both of us misread it. he stated clearly that it was the distrubtor gear that got stripped off. so let us continue to answer his orginal question why did it eat that gear? thank you for your time. we both need to read slower.

You are wrong. I read his post and your response correctly and understood what the problem was. I read what you wrote and it is still all wrong. You are young and inexperienced. I have been reading your replies for a very long time before I joined and you are rash to respond. In this case you do not know or understand the subject but you think you do so you are offended by being corrected. I have been a Ford service tech for 30 years, I do know a bit about the subject. Ed

you are wrong again. i am not young and inexperienced. i am 46 years old. i am not as old as he is. he plainly stated that he stripped the dist gear off. you missed it and will not admit it. you are WRONG.

So I put a new timing chain and gear set on, ran great for the day that it worked. Then I was on the highway, the engine died and the oil light came on. There was no fire, all signs of dizzy problems. So the bug in the distributer isn't working. Had it towed, and looked at the dizzy gears, About 8 of the 20 pin things are busted off.and looked at the dizzy gears, About 8 of the 20 pin things are busted off. What will cause that, most likely something with that cam gear right?

you are either wrong or your lying to save face. you can not tell me that a chain cannot strip a gear off of a nylon chain. then i guess they last forever. then why does everyone elses get chewed up. so which is it are you wrong or are you lying?

there are a many reasons a dist gear can get chewed up. oil pump could lock up. thing could have just been old and worn. (metal fatigue). there could have been something in there. (doubtful) maybe just maybe the cam gear is damaged. (douubtful) again.

as far as the spacer missing someone has to have removed it in the past. that may have caused unusal wear to the dist gear from the cam moving back and forth if it did move back and forth in the bearings. you would have heard a kind of knocking noise if it was moving back and forth.
thats all i can talk about now. its lunch time.

[BigEd]

You are wrong. I read his post and your response correctly and understood what the problem was. I read what you wrote and it is still all wrong. You are young and inexperienced. I have been reading your replies for a very long time before I joined and you are rash to respond. In this case you do not know or understand the subject but you think you do so you are offended by being corrected. I have been a Ford service tech for 30 years, I do know a bit about the subject. Ed

you are wrong again. i am not young and inexperienced. i am 46 years old. i am not as old as he is. he plainly stated that he stripped the dist gear off. you missed it and will not admit it. you are WRONG.

So I put a new timing chain and gear set on, ran great for the day that it worked. Then I was on the highway, the engine died and the oil light came on. There was no fire, all signs of dizzy problems. So the bug in the distributer isn't working. Had it towed, and looked at the dizzy gears, About 8 of the 20 pin things are busted off.and looked at the dizzy gears, About 8 of the 20 pin things are busted off. What will cause that, most likely something with that cam gear right?

you are either wrong or your lying to save face. you can not tell me that a chain cannot strip a gear off of a nylon chain. then i guess they last forever. then why does everyone elses get chewed up. so which is it are you wrong or are you lying?

there are a many reasons a dist gear can get chewed up. oil pump could lock up. thing could have just been old and worn. (metal fatigue). there could have been something in there. (doubtful) maybe just maybe the cam gear is damaged. (douubtful) again.

as far as the spacer missing someone has to have removed it in the past. that may have caused unusal wear to the dist gear from the cam moving back and forth if it did move back and forth in the bearings. you would have heard a kind of knocking noise if it was moving back and forth.
thats all i can talk about now. its lunch time.

I am sorry, I was wrong about your age. I have read so many of your responses that were incorrect that I had just assumed you were inexperienced. I was not wrong about my responses. I did clearly understand that the distributor gear sheared which is why I suggested the spacer. It is a very common problem and it caused the teeth to break off of the distributor. Unfortunately he did not know to look for the spacer and it is hard to notice if you do not know about it. The engine will bolt back together just fine with the spacer in there which is why it is such a common problem. If the engine had an original Ford cam gear it had to have a spacer in there as the engine would lock up if it wasn't in there. You mention that the cam would walk back and forth, and that again is wrong, as it would be exaclty the opposite and the cam and cam gear would pinch the retainer plate when the bolt was tightened down and the engine would never run. I was not wrong in any of my responses and do not need to admit that I was. Please note that my original response was directed at a broken distributor gear, not a timing set, which is why I also noted an oil pump issue to which I also noted that a seized oil pump usually breaks the roll pin and not the gear. If I had misread the issue and was wrong as you say then how come I addressed a broken distributor in my very first response? Sorry but I was addressing the correct issue and had read what he wrote and diagnosed it properly. I can also tell you that a timing chain does not strip off the nylon until the nylon fails. The nylon fails and comes unbonded due to heat cycles/chemical action/age. Until this happens it cannot be stripped by a chain. I also never said it could not happen. I only said it wasn't part of the issue he is experiencing which is why it was a bogus response. Even if the nylon gear had come apart it would not cause the distributor gear to break. I am not lying you are just not familiar with the subject. Until the nylon fails due to age/heat cycles/chemical action it will last indefinitely. That is why manufacturers used them originally. Think about it, they are more expensive to make so why do car companies use them? The gear was designed to last until the first valve job which was far enough in the future that it is not an issue for manufacturers. I am sorry you do not like being wrong but from the very begining I have been addressing a broken distributor gear which is almost always caused by a C ring left in. It can be caused by a locked oil pump but that is very rare as the roll pin will break normally when that happens (which is why they use a roll pin, to prevent additional engine damage if the oil pump can't turn). You really need to calm down and reread this thread as your responses have not been appropriate and your name calling is childish. You were wrong and made incorrect assumptions. You suggested the wrong things and misdiagnosed the entire issue. How come I am the bad guy when I was not wrong? I am sorry that I had assumed you were young but again, look at your responses. Ed

[Hawkrod]

Wow, this thread.

Haven't been here in a while, guess I haven't missed much! LOL I would look at the cam gear spacer. It does cause the distributor teeth to break off. It is amazingly common. If you are careful you can check for it by using a prybar in the distributor hole and see if you can move the cam back and forth. If it moves any measurable amount the extra spacer is in there. If it is tight front to rear then it isn't. Warning though, you have to use quite a bit of force to move it and be carefull, breaking teeth on the cam is easy and then it will have to come apart and it gets expensive. Hawkrod

[JMcTurnan]

Ok no need to fight, on the top it did not look to have a spacer. I didn't look, because I just took the gear off, if it did not come off with the gear than it is still on there if it was. Also, I checked on the cam shaft gear, and it looked in decent shape. The old gears had no wear at all, but the chain had slack. Ok thats another thing knocked off, Im talking about that this engine does not have that c ring. Most of the older ones don't in ford. Im not saying it wasn't spose to have a spacer. Which Im not sure if it did or didn't.

Anything that was on the chain before is on there now. And it never ruint the dizzy before, so it couldn't be that. But no need to fight guys, im just trying to get help, not trying to put you at eachothers throats . But Ill try and check that spacer out.

[Hawkrod]

Ok no need to fight, on the top it did not look to have a spacer. I didn't look, because I just took the gear off, if it did not come off with the gear than it is still on there if it was. Also, I checked on the cam shaft gear, and it looked in decent shape. The old gears had no wear at all, but the chain had slack. Ok thats another thing knocked off, Im talking about that this engine does not have that c ring. Most of the older ones don't in ford. Im not saying it wasn't spose to have a spacer. Which Im not sure if it did or didn't.

Anything that was on the chain before is on there now. And it never ruint the dizzy before, so it couldn't be that. But no need to fight guys, im just trying to get help, not trying to put you at eachothers throats . But Ill try and check that spacer out.

Do you have your old cam gear that you removed? Give us a picture of the back side of it and we can tell you if it had a spacer or not. Hawkrod

[fordman]

Please note that my original response was directed at a broken distributor gear, not a timing set,

I can also tell you that a timing chain does not strip off the nylon until the nylon fails. The nylon fails and comes unbonded due to heat cycles/chemical action/age. Until this happens it cannot be stripped by a chain. I also never said it could not happen. I only said it wasn't part of the issue he is experiencing which is why it was a bogus response.

this is exactly what i was talking about. an old brittle nylon gear that was ready to go could get eaten up by reusing it with a new chain. could. i already stated that i missed the dist gear part. his responce wssnt complete sentences in my opinion.

Sorry, that is a bogus reply, new chain and old gears will not cause that and none of the rest of the stuff about torque is true either. There are several possibilities about what caused it but the most common is cam end play from improperly matched parts. Also crud dropped into the pan can lock up the oil pump which will also do the same thing although that usually shears the pin and winds up the shaft not breaks gear teeth. Depending on what engine it is Ford had several different combo's for cam gears and retainers, for example older engines had a C ring behind the cam gear and many replacement gears have it built in to the gear. If you leave the old C ring in with a new gear it will shear the teeth off easily. Ed

i do not see where you stated dist gear. you go on to talk about timing chain gears. so the dist gear being stripped. i just did not read that. maybe that is the confusion. everyone should use complete descriptions. so as to avoid these confusions. i have seen camshafts move back and forth and end up breaking the cam retainer. this is suppose to be caused by worn cam bearings. i also said if it moved back and forth. if.

you are right about leaving the spacer in there with the newer gears. so guys have reported too short of a line up pin in the cam for the eccentric possibly caused by not removing the old spacer with the new cam gear. we do actually agree on this but i think you misread my post as i misread his post.

[JMcTurnan]

Now is that spacer plate behind the thrust plate or behind the cam gear? That cam has never been touched ever, other than us putting the cam sprocket on.

[JMcTurnan]

The engine was barely run, and the mechanic also said everything was tight how it should be. It had under 200 hours run time, which ends up being something like 8-20 thousand miles. So I don't think that would be it. The way it sheared was wierd, it wasn't all the way around but just on about half of it. A quarter of the teeth were sheared off on one side, and on the opposite side another quarter. Which sorta does make sense if the cam was rocking up and back.