how to buy paint...

[Mugwump]

exactly.

Ryan, you ask a lot of questions that some of us here would love to see explained, and Steve302 has done a service to us all by explaining the steps and techniques in such detail. I know I'm learning stuff, too!

Thanks to both of ya.

[Steve302]

Hello,
There is no such thing as a stupid question, never be afraid to ask questions on this site, everyone loves to help, and sometimes we all learn something from someone elses questions. At least 3 times a week i call the best paint guy i know and ask questions. He has never let me down. so Technically i learn at least 3 new things a week from him. For 4 years i trained Highschool students in basic autobody repair and it was honestly the best thing i could have done for myself. Rather than just doing my work i had to explain what i was doing and why i was doing it. as a result it made me fine tune my skills even more. I believed in "real world" training, i was a tad harsh like a boss could be, I rarely allowed "chit chat". Though some of them thought i was an A$$ i did it get them prepared for working at a bodyshop, its not the friendliest business to be in. Though the administration thought my Cigarette smoking and Andrew Dice Clay vocabulary was a bit much.
Steve

[1971ford]

i just read the whole book that i have. then i went back and reread all of your posts and magicly they make since now .

is this a good list to take to a paint/body store? any problems? and are the amounts of product good? i can always go back and get more!

Wax/grease remover
Tack cloths
Nason Ful-thane Arcylic Urethane (single stage)Paint–1.5 gallons maybe?
Reducer – 1-gallon maybe?
Catylist-what is this?I did the math, I need 1.5pints of catylist for 1.5 gal.
Aircraft Chemical Stripper
Epoxy primer
Primer Surfacer
Sealer- do I need this? (I will be stripping the whole truck to bare metal)
Sanding blocks - flex and non-flex
bunch of different-grit sand papers
Stir sticks/strainers
Masking tape
HVLP Paint gun
air guage(the one that attaches to the inlet on gun)
some sort of drier for compressor

this is going to hold off my parts for a long time though because of the money this will take
oh well, i have several years

i have some more questions, but i want to get these down first.

thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and all the safety gear i am going to get from my uncle (works at 3m ) and my dad (sells respirators)

[Steve302]

hello,
It seems you got it down correct. I only see a few things to point out.
#1 Tac cloths are good, just remember to let the cloth glide lightly across the body of the car, no pressure should be applied.
#2 I dont suggest Aircraft stripper for a first timer. The stuff is very hard to properly work with unless the truck is in a zillion pieces, also alot of chance for contamination, For the first time, i think you should do it the hard way, sand it all off! yes i know the idea sucks but i would never advise anyone to use aircraft stripper unless they had seen it properly done at least a few times. Also aircraft is like grinding without safety goggles you will get hurt (like hospital E.R. hurt/burns) if you dont take the proper precautions
#3most sealers are epoxy and if let to dry on the body during the duration of the bodywork its a pain to re-prep properly for the next step, do yourself a favor, sand a panel down, do your filler work, prime it, move to the next panel.
Primer is your next issue........ here is my suggestion........
Autobody chemists have lost their minds, the product layering is getting too extreme and as a result labor rates and material bills are climbing and there are more product failures than ever.
I am a 3rd generation Bodyman my grandpappy, and my dad bolth did it for over 40 years each, and they bolth had taught me the less materials you add the better. In my dads day he straightened with this method...
bare metal, filler, primer, paint ONLY 3 MATERIALS!!!!!!
personally i use....... Filler, primer ,paint. Hey!!!! it still works today!

Some will say,Use metal etch,sealer,filler,sealer,primer,sealer,paint!!!! yikes!!! throw some peanut butter in there too!!!
Keep it simple
U-pol makes a urethane primer #up2232a uses catylist #up2393 reducer#up2481. this is very affordable and is a 3 stage primer filler that is designed to be mixed as a sealer, a surfacer or an extreme filler (such as featherfill) depending in catylist and reduction ratios. This product is 100% fully compatable with ALL DuPont Paint products.
If you dont have all the state of the art body tools use U-pol Flyweight body filler, its a non sagging filler that sands as easy as a glazing putty.
I swear to god im not in any way an employee or salesperson for U-pol!!!!
Steve

[1971ford]

ok so lightly with the tack cloths, and no stippers because of safety. ok that sounded a little weird
ill stick to bare metal, filler, primer, paint too then hey, it saves me money too

whats catylist though?

and so this U-Pol primer uses that catylist and reducer and the catylist and reducer will need to be bought additionally to the U-Pol primer correct? so its like mixing the paint but with primer?

[Steve302]

Correct!
Never mix different catylists with other brands, nason paint uses nason catylist, U-Pol primer uses U-Pol catylist.
Catylist it the additive that forces the product to cure, without catylist the products will stay sticky forever!
If you dont catylize the products your truck will take on the job of being the largest flypaper surface in the world.

And no strippers for safety reasons

[1971ford]

another question before i revise the list,

does this U-pol primer with reducer/catylist take place of the epoxy primer and primer-surfacer on my list? or do i still need epoxy primer?

[Steve302]

Oh Yes............
I need to mention that your county may use different reducers and catylists due to EPA regulations, along with that may be different mixing ratios too! No worries though, the paint store will help you with that.
You also need to Ask the paint store when the county you live in will be changing over to waterbourne paints, you will want to buy the paint and catylist before then because you will NOT be able to shoot waterbourne paint in your garage or outside.
Steve

[Steve302]

Hello, again.........
it takes place of ALL sealers, etch primers, polyester primers etc...
its the only Liquid you will be spraying from a gun other than the paint itself.

DONT FORGET TO BUY """REAL"""" SPRAY MASKS!!!!!!!!!!

[1971ford]

any estimation when they will change? wont they change sometime around when your county does? we do both live in norcal.

ok so the current version....

Wax/grease remover
Tack cloths
Nason Ful-thane Arcylic Urethane (single stage)Paint–1.5 gallons maybe?
Reducer – 1-gallon maybe?
Catylist-I did the math, I need 1.5pints of catylist for 1.5 gal.
U-pol urethane primer #up2232a with reducer #up2481 and with catylist #up2393
Sanding blocks - flex and non-flex
bunch of different-grit sand papers
Stir sticks/strainers
Masking tape
HVLP Paint gun
air guage(the one that attaches to the inlet on gun)
some sort of drier for compressor


the reducer and catylist for the paint itself has to be Nason correct?

after this i should have a final list for liquid related stuff

now on to the paint gun and drier etc.
lets start with compressor,
i just recently bought a 26 gallon, 6.3 scfm@40 psi, 160 psi max, 1.6 HP Craftsman aircompressor. is this too small for spraying paint no matter what? i was thinking i could spray one fender etc at a time, but i dont know what paint guns require for cfm.
if it is i will have to figure something out.

[Steve302]

Your compressor will be fine for painting and priming, go easy on it when you are using sanders.
ALL Nason paints must use nason catylist and nason reducer.
ALL u-pol products need u-pol catylist and reducer.
I believe all of California will be switching to waterbourne by 2010, but they change their minds every day, it may be next week or in 5 years, but i believe all of the United States including Canada will be required to switch to waterbourne by 2012. Im not worried about it, im closing up and moving out of California before the end of 2008 and go work in someones basement making false teeth for prisoners or something like that.

[1971ford]

super glad to here the compressor should be fine.

bummer! you know so much about painting/body work!!!!! so will everyone have to have pro's do their paint? if so, you should be a painter im so glad i wasnt born a few years later! i just made it in time...

now onto a drier. what drier do i get to keep moisture out of my paint?

[1971ford]

interesting. i wonder what prices will be like for having it done in the future.

now the last thing i hope - a spray gun.

a HVLP gravity feed right? but which one?
primairly one that will shoot the best paint with my compressor. any brands to look into? part numbers, links, anything

[Steve302]

This is not so easy to answer.............
For budget reasons i would say get a Harbor Freight HVLP a 1.3 or 1.4 head. but I dont know what they offer in quality.
HVLP guns range anywhere around $30 to $600+ I honestly cant say what you should get. There is a gun called Advantix? or something like that, its a generic line gun but sprays very well, i have no clue if they still make them or where to find it.
Whatever you get make sure its a dual stage(sprays air first then the material) adjustable fan gun

[Steve302]

Remind me to tell your dad he needs to hide his credit card for awhile